The most experienced Marine Surveyors in Ontario

Our Service, What we do, How we do it, and The Purpose of a Marine Survey

We have over two decades of experience from 18 to 120 feet in all construction mediums and we are fiercely adamant about protecting a Client’s Interest.

From the 25 foot family day sailors, right through to the liveaboard motor yachts and world cruisers, our approach to our work had produced a solid reputation, backed by a huge number of unsolicited testimonials of Clients as well as Insurance Underwriters, who can be contacted by any bona fide party interested in our services.

Marine Surveys are conducted for many different purposes.

For the most part, we work for Buyers of new and used vessels (pre-purchase), for Insurance Providers and Lending Institutions.

We also prepare Construction Supervision Surveys (when major structural or refurbishing work is done), Damage Reports, Intended Capability Reports (when a vessel is readied for a major passage or cruise) and quite often a “Second Opinion” Report, when an owner or buyer feels that an other Surveyor’s previously conducted report requires an other opinion.

The most important reason for obtaining a Pre-Purchase Survey on a used vessel (or even on a new boat, remember, the building of new boats is still an unregulated industry, nothing like the cars rolling off the lines at a car plant!) is to gain as much information on the condition of the vessel as possible before you buy it. This ensures that the investment is sound, that the vessel is a Good Risk for Insuring and that she can safely fulfill her builder’s intended purpose at sea. (To Underwriters everything is a “risk” and the Surveyor’s job is to determine whether the risk is an acceptable one or not.)

Buyers need to realize that in order to rent a slip in a reputable marina, their vessel will have to be properly covered by Insurance. Newcomers to boating often do not realize this, and finalize a deal prior to Surveying, only to discover that the vessel has major deficiencies requiring expensive repairs before it can favorably pass an Insurance Survey.

Of course if you are financing the boat, the Bank will require a Survey prior to releasing the funds…

What the Surveyor does and how he does it has a lot to do with his skills, experience, and personal methods of work, but in all cases he or she should be able to provide you with information based on professional experience, and furnish you with expert opinions upon which you can make important financial decisions with peace of mind. Of course the Survey Report should provide it's content without prejudice and to the best of the Surveyor's ability, with the understanding that the Surveyor is properly qualified for the particular assignment.

For the client to ask for validation of the Surveyor's claim to his or her expertise and work experience is not only acceptable, but is very much recommended. The Surveyor should be able to supply you with real references from previous clients, insurers and lending institutions.

At Marine Support On Line we can supply references from a huge number of Satisfied Clients complete with contact information, whom include not only Boaters, but Insurers and Lenders as well.

(References are supplied by issuing a unique password to access protected web pages of this site, upon request from a bona fide client prospect, which we do in order to protect the privacy of the writers of our Unsolicited Testimonials.)

Example of a real, unsolicited testimonial:

----- Original Message -----

From: Steven_Scharien@royalsunalliance.ca

To: gjberta@marinesupportonline.com

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:57 AM

Subject: Vessel Survey Received

Dear Mr. Berta,

We have recently received a survey you completed for one of our insured's vessels. I just wanted to drop you a quick note to say that I was very pleased with the quality and presentation of your survey, and from an insurance underwriter’s perspective, this is very much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Steven Scharien
National Yacht Manager
Royal & SunAlliance Insurance Company of Canada
1-866-365-2802 x4228

This link will take you to a slideshow of some vessels Surveyed:

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The Survey Process is observation and testing. The two most important tools in a Surveyor's possession are experience and skills of observation. Needless to say, the better educated in regards to the Industry and the more experienced a Surveyor is, the higher the caliber of his work will be. And, very importantly, Good Surveyors are most adamant in regards to protecting their clients’ interest!

Never, ever take a Survey supplied by a seller or a broker at face value! Such document can be used as bases of a preliminary discussion in regards to what the boat may be all about, but never make a decision of purchase without the use of a Qualified Marine Surveyor in Your Employ!

(This webpage is not the place to discuss this, but horror stories of unqualified and uncaring individuals labeling themselves as “surveyors” and costing the Consumer untold sums of bad investment are rampant in this industry! If you want to discuss this, email us or call 905 955-4449.)

What we do in a Pre-Purchase situation

The Pre-Purchase Survey Report involves examining every piece of the boat accessible without taking it apart. This includes testing of all structural components, and inspection of all mechanical and electrical systems to ensure a safe installation and compliance to applicable standards. Everything is scrutinized and is reported on in a structured, easy to read and understand presentation, which is accompanied by digital images of the vessel and her components (may include pictures of deficiencies and images of a meter’s reading, which become undisputable tools in negotiating what the vessel’s fair selling price may be). The average number of printed pages produced by our office when reporting on a 30 foot pleasure boat is about fourteen, and much more of course if major problems or deficiencies are noted – very thorough, very much in depth reporting.

Our Reports are not the check-list format of a couple of pages, still used by some marine surveyors.

Our Reports are specifically composed for each particular vessel and are written in an essay fashion, systematically discussing all relevant items, components and gear, and includes digital imagery on glossy photo paper. Two Certified Copies of a Pre-Purchase or Insurance Report are issued, along with a professionally produced CD, describing your Surveyor’s work and containing other data, such as an electronic copy of your Survey Report.

Survey Reports produced to Content Standards equal to or higher than those prescribed by the leading

Accreditation Societies and Trade Associations.

PERTINENT STANDARDS USED FOR PLEASURE CRAFT ARE SET BY:

AMERICAN BOAT & YACHT COUNCIL

NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION

TRANSPORT CANADA SMALL CRAFT REGULATIONS

ABYC (American Boat & Yacht Council) and NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) are the two major providers of the Standards & Recommendations for the Marine Industry in general, which of course includes builders of new boats, as well as the boatyards and repairers in general.

Adherence to these Standards is strictly on a volunteer basis, as the Industry is very much still unregulated in Canada and in the US. That is why it is so important to Survey even a brand new boat!

We find substandard components and installations sometimes even among the best makes, so Surveying a new boat (= large investment!) makes a whole lot of sense and in the long run it pays off in a big way.

FOR COMMERCIAL VESSELS WE USE STANDARDS SET BY:

TRANSPORT CANADA OFFICE OF MARINE SAFETY

CANADIAN COAST GUARD

UNITED STATES COAST GUARD

Besides the examination of all structures and components and committing to Insurability, the Pre-Purchase Report also includes Current Market Value. This is a dollar figure that the attending Surveyor feels the vessel was worth at the time of the inspection, which can of course be used for Lending and Insured Value purposes. Our value conclusions for pleasure craft are based on numbers provided to us by such institutions as the Boat Value Book in Canada and the BUC Network in the USA. These values are arrived at by documenting actual sold prices, and are adjusted by our Surveyors in accordance to a particular vessel's apparent condition and deficiencies found in need of addressing in the foreseeable future.

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What we do not do

Today's boats are a complex system of components working in concert. While our Surveyors in a previous career were practicing Marine Technicians who worked years in the field prior to becoming full time Surveying Professionals, we do not profess to be all-knowing. We focus on the points that are considered throughout our Industry to be within the accepted scope of a Marine Survey. That is, we report on items without disassembly, using only tools of non destructive means (moisture meters, ultra sounding, acoustical sounding). We do not report on internal condition of machinery, and we do not perform such tasks as taking compression values or collect samples of lube oil for analysis. This should be left for a Mechanical Surveyor or Technician, who's professional expertise are focused on these components.

A good Marine Surveyor can be considered a “general practitioner”. We may find major issues or deficiencies with a particular component, in which case we may recommend obtaining the services of a professional working in a specialized field of the Industry. (Example - in the case of finding lube oil in a particular pattern sprayed around a gear box output shaft, we would suspect a bad seal. This can be resultant of many variables however, which include the seal simply reaching the end of it’s service life, an event of overheating of the gearbox, excessive oil levels or a propeller shaft misalignment - we would recommend a Marine Mechanic to be called in to locate the exact cause.)

What you can do to help

The more the Surveyor knows about your boating experience and your specific requirements, the better he will be able to serve your interest. Not only do we need to know about the boat you're interested in, but we want to know something about you, your experience and your requirements. If you are a novice, chances are you don't really know what you want, so this will be our way of helping you to determine what your requirements are. The more information you can give us, the better we'll be able to serve and advise you. There are endless varieties of boats, and endless levels of expectations of boat buyers. We do our best to tailor our services to your specific needs and we intend to continue being there to offer support after you closed the purchase.

Fees

We do not publish exact fee schedules. Every boat, and the circumstances under which it must be Surveyed, Appraised or Inspected is different.

For a precise quote please e-mail or call our offices (905 955-4449).

In general, the following figures should give an idea of the average cost of a Survey conducted on a fiberglass (FRP) pleasure vessel on a Pre-Purchase Condition and Value (C&V) basis.

For commercial vessels, wood and metal boats, for vessels over 45' and for other services such as Insurance Surveys and Consulting, please e-mail or call our offices (905 955-4449) for a quote.

Please note: when we give a quote, it is all you will be paying + GST. We never have any hidden or surprise charges at the end.

Beware of surveyors charging substantially less than these figures. You only get what you pay for, and when investing tens or hundreds of thousands in a boat, hiring a cheap surveyor could turn out to be the biggest mistake of your life.

The real professionals spend thousands annually on support organizations and education.

The figures you see here are in-line with the current Industry Standard and what a Competent and Qualified Surveyor will cost you.

To 29’ - $14.00 / foot length over all (LOA), minimum charge = $300.00

30’ to 39’ - $15.00 / foot LOA

40’ to 44’ - $16.00 / foot LOA

45’ & up - Please call for quote.

Service area

We can easily provide service around The Great Lakes, Florida and The Caribbean.

   Our local Ontario service area (reachable by car) is depicted on the map below, and extends to:

- The North Shore of Lake Ontario including St. Catharines, Hamilton, Port Credit, Toronto,

    Pickering, Whitby, Trenton, Bellville, Kingston, and The Thousand Islands.

- Lake Simcoe, excluding all Crate marinas and Lefroy Harbour Resorts.

- All areas along the Trent Severn Waterway, including Lindsay, Peterborough, Haliburton and The

   Kawarthas.

- On Georgian Bay we go to Meaford, Midland, Penetanguishene, Honey Harbour, Victoria Harbour and surrounding areas.

Who's paying for what, in case of a Pre-Purchase situation

The Buyer is responsible for the Survey Fee and the Hauling Charges. The seller is responsible for someone to operate the vessel, such as a paid captain, as well as ensuring that the vessel is ready to be hauled and inspected.

A boat with a dirty bottom needs to be cleaned for any Surveyor to do the job right! In most cases a simple pressure washing after haul-out will suffice. Establish with the seller who is going to pay this cost. We can not and will not write a report on a vessel who's bottom has excessive marine growth adhered, as the inspection can not be done with any accuracy concerning the condition of the hull bottom.

Things to keep in mind

We seldom advertise in printed media and we never solicit business from brokers. Simply put, a good Surveyor is usually not very popular within the brokering community, because we find deficiencies in a product that a salesman wants to find no flaws with…

If you ask a broker to suggest a Surveyor, a Decent Broker will hand you a list of ten or so well known Surveyors for you to choose from. But, why even ask a broker – the best way to find a good Surveyor is by contacting Insurance Companies or talking to fellow boaters on the docks.

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It is important to understand that the quality of the Survey can only be as good as the conditions under which it is conducted. The Surveyor isn't going to be able to do a very good job if there are a lot of people interrupting with inappropriately timed questions, if the seller limits the amount of time the vessel is available, or other negative circumstances.

It should be understood by owners / sellers / brokers that the vessel has to yield herself to examination, in order for the attending Surveyor to do his work. We can not report conclusively on parts of a boat that are covered-up by debris, gear, clothing, tools, parts & pieces or other in-the-way items preventing proper inspection. The Owner should be aware of this and understand that the Surveyor can not be expected to "unload" a ship for inspection… If a boat is cluttered and we do not feel we were able to do our job right, we will make that very clear to our Client in our Report, and we will advise abandoning the purchasing process until conditions are more ideal for proper inspection.

In times of colder seasons, contrary to what some “surveyors” may claim, frozen laminates can not be conclusively reported on!

If we must Survey a frozen structure, it will be considered a preliminary Report only, and we will make it very clear that the Report will not be complete and will not be suitable for Pre-Purchase, Lending or Insuring purposes until we return to the vessel at a time when her structures are thawed.

(Careful of sellers / brokers putting on the pressure to close a deal in the off season – offers to purchase should always be made contingent upon reasonable results of [1] - an appropriately conducted Structural Marine Survey, [2] - mechanical inspection and [3] - seatrials! All 3 items must be in the equation of any normal vessel purchase, at any time of the year made by the average boating consumer! Abandon any of the above 3 conditions only if you consider yourself a marine expert and are buying a fixer-upper as is, and with known issues you are willing and able to deal with.)

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We often have difficulty in conveying the point that the Surveyor is not finished until his Report is written. Naturally, the client wants a report as soon as the physical inspection is completed. However, please understand that our work had just started.

We need time to go over notes, perhaps do some research (we belong to support organizations encompassing all aspects of our forte), and obviously we need to think about the boat we have just examined. In most cases, we can give you a verbal rundown of our findings the same day, but we urge you not to allow yourself to be rushed into a closing based on a verbal report. Only the Written Report constitutes the full and complete results of a Marine Survey.

Marine Support On Line

www.marinesupportonline.com

905 955-4449

Copyright MSOL Marine Surveyors – all rights reserved.